Steinberg wanted to quash discussions on electing Ron Santo into the Hall of Fame. I am currently reading The Politics of Glory by Bill James, and he makes a strong case without actually directly stating it (at least up to page 180) for Ron Santo to be elected into the Hall of Fame.
Then I went online and found some this direct statement:
http://www.santo4cooperstown.org/?page_id=49
The above quote is found directly quoted here, where Bill James ranks Ron Santo the 6th best third baseman.
So, Steinberg, do you think it may have been a logical fallacy to strictly compare a third baseman's batting statistics to a center fielder's?
As an aside, I think that Ron Santo is on his way into the Hall of Fame.
I also came across this interesting tidbit from Bill James:
Q: Why can’t the Chicago Cubs get into the World Series? Is it the small park? Low salaries? The curse of the billy goat? Does sabermetrics provide any insights?
A: Talking about the origins of it — the Cubs fell into a trench in history in the late 1930’s, when almost all baseball teams built farm systems, but the Cubs for several years refused to do so. This put them behind the curve, crippled them for the 1950’s, and really the organization did not fully overcome that until about 1980.
Since 1980 they have had several teams that could have wandered into a World Series, with better luck. They haven’t had any one overpowering team — like the 1984 Tigers, or the 1992 Blue Jays, or the 1998 Yankees — that was so good that it demanded a seat at the Last Banquet of Fall. And, unless you have a team that good, you’re at the mercy of the fates.
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I do think they should be compared to a center fielders stats. I don't think he should be compared directly to willie mays as bill james said(very good point about the standard).
ReplyDeleteWithout doing my own research, I would trust Bill James that he belongs in over those other third basemen, but the way I look at it, he played with all of the other hall of famers on the cubs in the 60's, and they didn't win shit.
I don't think he's the 6th best 3rd baseman of all time, if he was why does nobody respect him that way. His .362 obp makes his .277 average look a little better, but the dude only hit .300 4 times.
It sounds like he was at least top 20, and maybe does belong in there, but his career fielding % is .954, which means he fumbled 1/20 plays to him, which doesn't sound like he deserved the gold gloves.
I will never be upset if he doesn't get in.
If you read Ron Santo's wikipedia page you will see a lot of records set by Ron Santo (for example leading the league in putouts and double plays), which were later broken by Mike Schmidt. Mike Schmidt, unlike Santo, is one of those no brainer Hall of Famers.
ReplyDeletePeople get way to emotional in defense of Ron Santo's case for the Hall of Fame.
"I dont think hes the 6th best 3rd baseman of all time, if he was why does nobody resepct him that way." That is not a real argument.
Do you think that playing on a world series winning team is a prerequisite for entering the Hall of Fame?
Do you think that playing on a world series winning team is a prerequisite for entering the Hall of Fame?
ReplyDeleteNo, but his one of those teams should have made it, right?